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Evolution?

 
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bestsynd
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Evolution? Reply with quote

Where Are All The Half-Evolved Dinosaurs?

May 24th, 2006



Origins?
by B. G. Ranganathan

Millions of people are taught that the fossil record is proof of evolution. But, where are there fossils of half-evolved dinosaurs or any other creatures in the fossil record?

Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, if evolution actually occurred we should see some stages of that evolution in the fossils. But, we don't find fossils of half-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats, or anything else. Every species of plant or animal in the fossils is complete and fully formed.

Another problem is how could a partially-evolved plant or animal survive for millions of years while its basic organs and tissues were still evolving? How, for example, were animals breathing, eating, and reproducing while there respiratory, digestive, and reproductive organs were still supposedly evolving over millions and million and millions of years?

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jpconrad
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if they actually taught evolutionary theory at Bob Jones University? Do they still have rules against interracial dating?

What exactly would a half-evolved species look like? Would a half-evolved bird look like archaeopteryx, someplace between a dinosaur and a bird?

The funny thing about this argument is that everytime a new fossil is found, such as the recent one that's between sea creatures and land animals link the "Creation Scientists" either say it isn't a transitional fossil (what is this half-evolved crap) or they say what's between the new fossil and the one before it, moving the goal posts.

What about this one? link Is it a half-evolved species?
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Froggy
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For something to evolve though...its slow and subtle, its not a dramatic change where like something just deveoples an extra leg or eye or something.

Like an apendix, there are ideas on what its use was originally, and it 'possibly' helps with the immune system to a degree but other than that it serves no purpose and we can live fine without it, our immune system works fine without it and one day humans will probably be born without it even being there. Therefore we are in the process of evolving no???

People that breed dogs, that are trying to develop a dog with say gaurding qualities but too big to be agile will take a breed that is more slender, smaller....and after generations of breeding these breeds they will end up with the new breed....through selective breeding they have evolved. The Pit Bull is actually a great example of that, certain breeds were chosen to in UK about 150 years ago...theres some disagreements in the dogs that were used but most likely it was an old type larger Bulldog that was used for bull baiting which was mixed with a now extinct Irish Terrier type (not the one that is bred today), it was smaller and more agile but had that terrier prey drive quality....and so now you have the Pit Bull as we know it today.

Dobermans originally were bred from Rottweilers, German Pscher, posibbly a GSD and a black and tan terrier....all dogs had their own qualities but Louis Doberman wanted something slightly different so he spent years developing the Doberman from these breeds. We now have a solid breed where you wont get any throwbacks. Selective breeding is evolution.

Humans too have evolved....not just with the apendix, from scientific studies we used to have better senses, our sense of smell, hearing and sight were a lot stronger....we dont rely on those senses as much for basic survival as we used to....maybe one day the human nose will serve no other purpose than just an additional airway.

OF all the fossils that are discovered I still dont think that weve touched on the true beginnings of this world, we go back so far, the ice age was the biggest cause of a significant change....but whos to say there wasnt something millions and millions of years before that.....and millions and millions of years before that....something big enough to virtually destroy all life forms, you only have to look at an area that has been destroyed by fire....and a year or so later you will see the green shoots popping up out the ground....new life begins.
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barstow wiz
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh-OH!
jp and Froggy, dave is going to be sooo mad at you! Wink
you know he believes in the poof theory. Shocked
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GOODave
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpconrad wrote:
The funny thing about this argument is that everytime a new fossil is found, such as the recent one that's between sea creatures and land animals the "Creation Scientists" either say it isn't a transitional fossil (what is this half-evolved crap) or they say what's between the new fossil and the one before it, moving the goal posts.

I dont' see it as moving the goal posts, John.

Evolutionists are forever complaining that "others" don't accept the evidence they find but isn't it really more a case of not allowing "just anything" to stand as evidence?

What I'm saying is, O.K., the paleontologists found the bones of a fish they think could have used the boney fins to lurch up onto land but have no evidence that is what actually happened. PLUS it was only one fish that even they posit was millions of years in the past so how can they (scientists, I mean) possibly reconstruct the function of the fish OR its boney fins?

In addition, we (the American public, in particular) are constantly bombarded with obviously biased articles like the one Lisa Anderson wrote for the Chicago Tribune (your link, above) about the boney fish.

She lambasts the Creation Scientists for stating their position without possibility of argument or dissent:
Quote:
It may be just another example of the wonderful design of our Creator God," the posting said.

Absolute certainty

For creationists, there are no transitional creatures and no doubts...
but she starts out her article with an absolute certainty of her own:
Quote:
The recent fossil discovery of a 375-million-year-old fish that could lurch ashore on bony transitional fins--apparently a long-sought missing link between sea creatures and land animals...


You see what I'm talking about? It has not been proven, that I'm aware of, just what that fish used its fins for, but Lisa Anderson apparently has an inside track because she states it as fact.

And, her article slides rapidly from fallacious argument to fallacious argment, downhill, from there.

If science does, indeed, have transitional fossils, present them AND support how they know they are transitional fossils. We (Christians, creationists, and proponents of ID) are people of faith, but sometimes you ask us to accept too much on faith. SHOW me.

dave
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GOODave
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

barstow wiz wrote:
Uh-OH!
jp and Froggy, dave is going to be sooo mad at you! Wink
you know he believes in the poof theory. Shocked
Rolling Eyes
I dont' get mad, wiz.

I get one up. Shocked
(er, your "poof" argument by personal charm notwithstanding).

dave
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jpconrad
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Transitional fossils... discount at will.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#morphological_intermediates
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GOODave
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpconrad wrote:
Transitional fossils... discount at will.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#morphological_intermediates
Nothing to discount, JP.

They almost appeal to a higher authority or, at LEAST beg the question, in everything (of that article) that I actually read.

For example, the article notes
Quote:
we have found a quite complete set of dinosaur-to-bird transitional fossils with no morphological "gaps"
and cites PubMed's publication of Sererno, 1999. So I go to PubMed and read what Sereno, 1999, had to say. He says the same thing the article said: (Basically) "we have a complete set of dino-to-tweety transitional fossils."

Isn't that sort of like "evidence by insistence?" They even suggested (no, stated that all of us today are still transitional, reptiles today are still transitional between amphibians and mammals...

Now, granted, JP, I didn't read the entire website so maybe I'm still just woefully uninformed. But what I did read suggested they still have no evidence that those transitional fossils actually ARE different generations of the same phyla. They looked similar so they MUST have been...

I think we should demand more than "faith," don't you? Wink
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jpconrad
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOODave wrote:

For example, the article notes
Quote:
we have found a quite complete set of dinosaur-to-bird transitional fossils with no morphological "gaps"
and cites PubMed's publication of Sererno, 1999. So I go to PubMed and read what Sereno, 1999, had to say. He says the same thing the article said: (Basically) "we have a complete set of dino-to-tweety transitional fossils."


Would you mind posting the entire 10 pages or Sereno's article? I don't have access to it.
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GOODave
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpconrad wrote:
GOODave wrote:

For example, the article notes
Quote:
we have found a quite complete set of dinosaur-to-bird transitional fossils with no morphological "gaps"
and cites PubMed's publication of Sererno, 1999. So I go to PubMed and read what Sereno, 1999, had to say. He says the same thing the article said: (Basically) "we have a complete set of dino-to-tweety transitional fossils."


Would you mind posting the entire 10 pages or Sereno's article? I don't have access to it.
Nor do I. The PubMed link through which I traveled took me to the summary (that you read).
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Nictoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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bestsynd
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



In the past, this author has gone on record for exposing the false suppositions of secular science, namely the “Big Bang”, the Nebular Hypothesis, the “primordial soup”, and of course, the theory of evolution. But in order to be impartial, the other side of “origins” should also be exposed. How can an untruth, ever expose another lie, to be in error? Both creationism and and secular science are incorrect.

Let’s start with the most loquacious, Creation Science, also
known as flood geologists. It is their belief that the Earth and the
universe are less than 10,000 years old. They also believe that the flood
of Noah was world-wide, and is responsible for the nature of the
geologic strata (catastrophism), and the fossils they contain. They also
support the "inerrancy" of the Bible with “literal interpretation” of
Genesis (when it is convenient). As a rule, they must first have a degree
(masters or doctorate) in a field of science (such as geology). They have
been the most active in the "disagreement" against evolution, but on such
a broad scale that to them it includes the "evolution of the universe".

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Nictoe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole of nature can either be viewed as a miracle, or as a universal scandal, but NEVER ever as something being: TECHNICAL. Indeed, it would be the unpardonable sin.
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